Define Alcoholism...


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HairyArse
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Would you class someone who has to have a drink EVERY SINGLE NIGHT without fail as being an alcoholic?

I'm talking to the extent of: take this weekend for example and it gets to 11pm on a Sunday night and they decide to go to a random pub on their own, for 'the last hour'?

I wouldn't ever goto a pub on my own just for the sake of a drink. The thing is, this person doesn't see that there's a problem.
#1 at 15:37:43 - 15/08/2007
Spin Dr Wolf
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Yes i would, but the more importantly how much does he drink, if its a pint a day, its not really a problem for example, unless its somehow effecting his work or private life.

As for drinking on your own, or going to the pub on your own i don't see the problem with it. If you wandered off to a pub on a sunny Sunday afternoon to have a pint in the garden and read the paper that wouldn't be so weird would it ?
#2 at 15:42:58 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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No that's fair enough but going to the pub every single night for 9 days continously so far, on your own, sometimes as late as 11pm strikes me as being odd.

It's also the fact that said person can never just say "oh I'm just going for a drink" he always has to make up an excuse.

Classics this week include

"I'm going to watch a pool game"
"I'm going to check out the new local"
"I'm going for the last hour"
"I'm off to see a mate"
"It's the weekend!"
"I'm off to sort out the snooker"

These nights out nearly always lead to bringing back bottles to drink alone, in bed, or in the conservatory.
#3 at 15:48:00 - 15/08/2007
Tiger_Walts
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I often go to the biker bar 1 min from my house on my own to watch the bands play. The barmaids are pretty too.
#4 at 15:49:22 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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I'm trying to decide whether there genuinely is a problem or if I'm just overly sensitive to it having watched my dad offer up the same naff excuses to justify his alocholism for all my life.

I'm convinced there is a problem but he doesn't. But to me it's not normal to need a drink every single day, and he told me last week that he has been to the pub every single night (usually only for 1 or 2 or so he says) for the last 3 months solid.

I'm also concerned because I know for a fact that he drives off 2/3/god knows how many more pints but thinks there's no problem because he doesn't feel pissed.
#5 at 15:50:11 - 15/08/2007
JimJam
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I think I'd be more worried if he needed one as soon as he got up. If he can go all day without one he can't be too bad.
#6 at 15:51:12 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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JimJam said:I think I'd be more worried if he needed one as soon as he got up. If he can go all day without one he can't be too bad.


Yeah that's true but the thing is that he can't goto bed without having had a drink. My dad would be like that, he didn't walk around with a bottle of whisky in a brown paper bag, but every day after work he'd go get hammered.
#7 at 15:52:47 - 15/08/2007
Tiger_Walts
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Hmm, lots of people drink a couple of pints every day but wouldn't have a problem stopping for a week or even longer.

Sounds like this person actually has a need to go out and have a drink which is alcoholism. On the surface it seems to be mainly a psychological need at the moment. If he had a physical dependency he'd be reaching for the beers as soon as he got home from work, not last thing at night.

I'd guess something is bothering him and the alcohol is being used for escapism.
#8 at 15:56:58 - 15/08/2007
JimJam
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Getting hammered's a bit different. I thought you meant a couple a night. That's definitely habitual whichever way you look at it. He doesn't fancy a barmaid there does he ?
#9 at 16:00:07 - 15/08/2007
mentat
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Tiger_Walts said:
I'd guess something is bothering him and the alcohol is being used for escapism.

Moving in with HA perchance?! :D

The killer is not whether he wants to go out every night for a drink, but whether he NEEDS to go out for a drink.
If he NEEDS it, he's pretty much an alcohol by definition, if he CHOOSES to, he's not.

That's the rule i run by generally.
#10 at 16:01:06 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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The key thing for me is the excuse making. If he didn't think there was a problem he could just say he was going for a drink right? So why doesn't he.

And sure there's no problem with going for a drink every now and then but every single night without fail is not normal. It's so bad that we could have mates around and be playing games or watching a film and all having a good time, but then the aforementioned will just leave mid activity to go to the pub.
#11 at 16:02:59 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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JimJam said:Getting hammered's a bit different. I thought you meant a couple a night. That's definitely habitual whichever way you look at it. He doesn't fancy a barmaid there does he ?


Nope that's not even the case. One of his haunts is a working men's club. He's only 28 for fuck sake.
The other (the one he's being going to all this week) is a council estate pub. I dunno about anyone else but I wouldn't just go on my own to a council estate pub not knowing a single person.
#12 at 16:05:31 - 15/08/2007
MetalDog
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This bit:
These nights out nearly always lead to bringing back bottles to drink alone, in bed, or in the conservatory.

Is the biggest alarm bell, I think. Lying about how much they drink is also a biggie. Hiding drink or rapid drops in household stuff like mouthwash is full on red alert.
#13 at 16:06:12 - 15/08/2007
Spin Dr Wolf
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It sounds to me like he might have a problem that he has yet to admit to himself, if he always avoids saying that he's going for a drink, then i would suspect it may be bothering him but he is reluctant to admit it to himself.

If thats the case, odds on he will have to get worse before he gets better. If he's a good mate, its worth taking him down the pub for a few drinks and a chat, see if there is anything bothering him he wants to talk about, or whether he's stressed out at work at the moment or anything. Otherwise its just habitual drinking, which will almost certainly lead to alcoholism after enough time.
#14 at 16:10:49 - 15/08/2007
Legion
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Having fun with the new housemate HA?

You've only lasted a week!

/readies the "I told you so" button ;)
#15 at 16:20:02 - 15/08/2007
peej
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Saw this thread coming a mile off...

I take it you've been fishing bottles out of the cistern at home then? :)

edit: beaten to it by mike!

Peej
#16 at 16:20:20 - 15/08/2007
mentat
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Perhaps he's got a new hobby, but is ashamed to say 'right, i'm off out flower arranging again, back later'

There are many legitimate reasons to go out every night, maybe he's found some great new friends he loves seeing? Maybe he's seeing some new girl?

Are you *sure* he's actually drinking every night?
Does he always come home smelling of beer or chewing gum?
#17 at 16:20:52 - 15/08/2007
FlexibleFeline
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JimJam said:I think I'd be more worried if he needed one as soon as he got up. If he can go all day without one he can't be too bad.


+1.

Brandy in the morning coffee would be more worrying than having one or two drinks every night...he should take a break, but he's not an alcoholic based on that alone.

Going to the pub on your own late a night is a bit odd, mind.

Driving after 2/3 - that's a fucking problem, and he needs a kick up the arse.
#18 at 16:21:29 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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It's not that any of this is causing any problems at home because it's not, it's just that I'm concerned for him because I see it as a problem for him.
#19 at 16:24:53 - 15/08/2007
Whizzo
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He says he's going to the pub but perhaps he's really going dogging?

Going to the pub at that sort of hour seems a little odd to me, going for a quick one after work to wind down a bit or having some social bevvies with others in an evening seems pretty normal to me but solo drinking at 23:00+ er that's a bit unusual.
#20 at 16:27:16 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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Good, I'm glad it's not just me. It's tricky to gauge because he doesn't always go and get shitted. But then how much of that is because he's built up such a tolerance?

I just find it very strange to be going to a pub on your own full stop, never mind every day solid for months on end and like Spin said, it could well worsen in later years, though I suspect this type of behaviour has been going on for 3/4/5 years now. He did work in a pub for a long time too.
#21 at 16:31:37 - 15/08/2007
JimJam
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Are you sure he's going to drink ? Not to besmirch council estates everywhere, but maybe he's going to score drugs...

That's probably not helping.
#22 at 16:40:41 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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Hehe - nah, that council estate pub just happens to be the nearest boozer to where we have just moved in. Like I said, his normal haunt is a working men's club. What do you go to one of those for? It's certainly not the women.
#23 at 16:43:44 - 15/08/2007
kalel
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For me alcoholism is just a type of addiction or dependency, and itís defined the same way as any other. If you feel you need alcohol, you are an alcoholic.
#24 at 16:55:12 - 15/08/2007
peej
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kalel said:For me alcoholism is just a type of addiction or dependency, and itís defined the same way as any other. If you feel you need alcohol, you are an alcoholic.


QFT.

And bear in mind, if you try to help he's probably going to give you some severe shit about it.

Peej
#25 at 16:58:54 - 15/08/2007
Tiger_Walts
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HairyArse said:Hehe - nah, that council estate pub just happens to be the nearest boozer to where we have just moved in. Like I said, his normal haunt is a working men's club. What do you go to one of those for? It's certainly not the women.


Incredibly cheap beer. Usually about 80p less for a pint than a normal pub.
#26 at 17:05:51 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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Well that backs my point up then doesn't it? He's only going for the beer.
#27 at 17:07:55 - 15/08/2007
peej
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I sympathise mate. I lived with an alcoholic who was in denial for 3 years and it was a shit situation all round with nothing that could be done. I bailed in the end for my own sanity, but always felt a bit of a shill for doing so, but I really did try everything I could to help. It's a tough gig though.

Dunno what to suggest, but basically if the dude's getting up in the morning and the first thing he does is reaches for a beer / a bottle, then he's an alcoholic.

Peej
#28 at 17:14:25 - 15/08/2007
HairyArse
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He doesn't drink in the morning and so because he doesn't fit that alcky stereotype doesn't think he is one.
#29 at 17:16:34 - 15/08/2007
Whizzo
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No idea if you've tried this but one night why not say "you know what? I could do with a quick one" and join him. If he's reluctant then something is up.

This is a bit of a public place for such discussion then? He not know you run a website or something? :-)
#30 at 17:18:06 - 15/08/2007

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