Heavy Rain


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peej
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Yup can't fault you on any of those.

What pissed me off though was...


SPOILERS BELOW. SPOILERS. SPOILERS!!! THERE ARE SPOILERS BELOW. DID WE MENTION SPOILERS?


...Shelby. The fucking idiot spends half the game pestering characters and interacting with people who HE'S FUCKING WELL MADE HIS VICTIMS. But why? I mean we're not assuming that he's so cheap that he wants to go and get all those boxes / mobile phones back because he's a cheapskate and just wants to rewrite the roms to give to the next victim?

Then there's the feeding the baby thing. The guy systematically tortures and drowns children. Yet here he is changing nappies, feeding and burping a cute little baby - aww, and saving her mother from suicide. But he'd already murdered one of her children.

The other plot holes you mentioned NY are crazy when you try and piece the whole game together in a vaguely cinematic / narrative driven way - it's almost like you're playing something that was developed by four teams completely oblivious to what the other teams were doing.

As for the Madison "death or glory" move you're required to make in order to get the 'good' ending to the game - that's just retarded and fucking wankerish really. No player's going to do that unless they're absolutely left with no other alternative so it's a cruel and unfair cop out.

TBH I think for all Quantic Dreams' claims that they're pushing the boundaries of mature gaming and emotion in games, they're falling flat by employing some of the worst writers in the business and letting David Gage run roughshod over plots that are paper thin in the first place.
#31 at 11:59:57 - 20/05/2011
Syrok
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Heh, I don't think I even noticed half of those plot holes. :D
#32 at 12:12:05 - 20/05/2011
evilashchris
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Me neither :D

I really enjoyed the ride though.

Thanks for retroactively ruining my experience guys! ;)
#33 at 12:44:24 - 20/05/2011
peej
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Our pleasure :)

#34 at 12:45:42 - 20/05/2011
Flying_Pig
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/ignoring spoilers!
#35 at 14:41:37 - 20/05/2011
NewYork
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Well, ignoring even the major plotholes and silly plot elements, again the 2 biggest crimes the writers commit are


SPOILERS

Having you play AS the killer and being able to see in his head, and there's no hint of him being the killer. Heck, having you play AS the killer during a scene where he kills someone, and yet you have no inkling that he did it.



and


Ethan's blackouts and waking with origami figures



It's fine to have red herrings, but those red herrings need explanations. Otherwise, what's to stop the writers just making it seem undeniable that a certain character did it, just to throw you off, when they don't need to explain their actions?


For anyone wondering, the explanation for SPOILERS

Ethan's blackouts is revealed in bonus material on the Move edition. Ready? When Ethan's son is killed in the accident, Ethan and Shelby's minds become PSYCHICALLY LINKED. Then, whenever Shelby sets about abducting a kid, Ethan experiences a blackout. Originally you were supposed to be able to play Ethan's blackout dream, where he searches a flooded home for the abducted child
.

Yes, had this made it into the game, the explanation was in fact supernatural. Dear lord.
#36 at 16:07:56 - 20/05/2011
Micro_Explosion
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I gave up on this halfway through. The plot and terrible acting wasn't strong enough to carry the general lack of a game.
#37 at 20:19:59 - 20/05/2011
Flying_Pig
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Nearly, nearly finished this. Discovered who the Origami Killer is (actually didn't see that coming) and my characters are all alive (just) and heading towards, what I assume is, the final showdown.

Truly amazing game - seriously considering going for the Platinum trophy, although suspect I'll need some help getting all the endings :)
#38 at 14:29:39 - 03/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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Fin

Having now read the plot holes highlighted in this thread - I agree that there are some pretty big ones.

That said - really enjoyed the overall experience and am keen to try a few alternative routes to the end (allowing a main character to die or get captured etc) to see how this changes the end chapter and various epilogues.

#39 at 10:41:11 - 06/06/2011
peej
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It's definitely worth doing - there is a little bit of branching in the game, and it's sometimes quite satisfying to 'fail' just to see what happens and what alternatives are offered.

#40 at 10:57:59 - 06/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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Not to mention the prospect of a platinum trophy!

#trophy whore
#41 at 13:56:58 - 06/06/2011
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I dunno, having got every ending, all it really does is reveal the skeleton of the game and it shows that the plot isn't all that dynamic.

Any character dying just ends their particular strand but leaves the other strands to continue. The strands never really cross over each other so there's no subtle effects to be seen.

Say character A, B, and C are trying to save the day and A dies. B and C continue on as they would have. That's about it. The final confrontation is pretty much the only scene that changes dramatically but the jist is pretty much the same, just with different choreography.

And then you get different consequences in the epilogue. Some are obvious (if a character is dead you get a scene at their grave). Some are arbitrary and pointless.

Meh, it's illusion of freedom.
#42 at 21:55:02 - 06/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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OK - quick question

Been replaying this to get the Perfect Crime trophy/ending. I attempted to focus on certain chapters, and then skipping to the next one, saving each time. But it doesn't seem to have worked at all.

Does this mean I have to backtrack to Hassan's Shop and then play the game from there!? Annoying!
#43 at 12:40:43 - 09/06/2011
peej
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Nail on head, pretty much. As NY says, it's not truly branching so you have to try and think how the structure of each chapter fits with its successors. So if you 'perfect' one chapter far enough back in the story you might get a branch in the next chapter to reflect this.

Basically Quantic Dream weren't quite clever enough to pull off what Team Bondi (arguably) did with LA Noire - provide a solid enough foundation to a chapter-based game that allows you to leap in at any point and successfully pick up a thread to try and turn the tide of events.

#44 at 15:07:16 - 09/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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Damn :(

Thanks Peej
#45 at 15:33:30 - 09/06/2011
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Indeed the lead Heavy Rain guy has recommended playing the game once only.
#46 at 15:38:14 - 09/06/2011
peej
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I've been through it three times and each time I found that there really is only one true 'branch' in the game and it's a really nastily hidden one that only hangs on one particular action by a single character.

Compare and contrast that with the branching in the hoary old Westwood game Bladerunner - which allegedly had a dozen endings that came as a result of your actions throughout the entire game.

This is what pisses me off about Peter Molyneux's bullshit about Fable and other Lionhead projects giving players the choice between good vs evil. A proper branching game with an intricate plot should never really be that black and white.

Hell, you could go even further back than Bladerunner and check out Alter Ego on the C64. There was a game that was so utterly simple but truly felt like every single choice you made at each point in the game directly affected the outcome of the next 'chapter'. In my opinion, gaming's still stellar years off being able to do that in a game that is also complex and immersive.
#47 at 16:01:47 - 09/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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peej said:I've been through it three times and each time I found that there really is only one true 'branch' in the game and it's a really nastily hidden one that only hangs on one particular action by a single character.


I do agree that the vast majority of decisions seem to make no difference to the outcome - with anything affecting the ending only really coming in the last 5-6 chapters. The sole exception being the Perfect Crime ending, which you would never naturally achieve, mainly because you don't know who the killer is (certainly so early in the game) and even when you did, it's not obvious what actions you would take.

HR gives the illusion of having a convoluted, branching narrative, but even failing the Tests, does not necessarily alter the end game, and in particular the actions of 1 character (somewhat surprisingly given his vocation) seem to make no difference whatsoever.

Still a great game, though :)
#48 at 16:46:58 - 09/06/2011
peej
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I think it's a flawed work of genius like all Quantic Dreams' output. I remember when I first played the Fahrenheit demo. At the time there hadn't been anything like it for years (it felt like a more action-oriented version of classic PC point and clickers - and as I say, this was at a time when point and clickers were dead and buried).

Same goes for Heavy Rain. When it was released, it felt like a fresh attempt to bring together a cinematic plot-driven experience that allowed the player the illusion of control and decision making.

I'd lay even money that in 2015 when Quantic Dreams next game releases on the PS4 / Xbox 720, it'll be the same deal.

I'd also lay even money that the game characters still look a bit muppet mouthed too :)
#49 at 16:53:31 - 09/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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It's quite interesting replaying this, knowing who the killer is. It puts a totally different slant on some the the scenes and decisions made...
#50 at 21:17:05 - 16/06/2011
Flying_Pig
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ARRRGGGHHH! So I decided to try for the Platinum Trophy and after getting all of the 18 endings, I'm a single bronze trophy away and amazingly it's actually the one you win for correctly completing the prologue!

Irritatingly, I don't know why I haven't won it, on one of the 3 play-thoughts of that scene. What's worse is that you can to play all the way through to the end of Father & Son (When you're tasked with giving Shaun his dinner and putting him to bed etc), meaning that it amounts to some 45 minutes of (fairly dull) play to see whether I've done enough to get the final trophy :(

Aside from that, I've really enjoyed seeing all of the endings (agree that you probably wouldn't get the 'good/best' ending naturally) and playing out some of the scenes differently, but I really am done with this now...
#51 at 17:14:44 - 01/07/2011
Flying_Pig
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o/

Done! Checked a few guides and while I've no idea why I didn't get it previously, I did discover that you only have to play the Prologue, not trawl though the Mall and Father & Son scenes.

Platinum Trophy number 3 :D
#52 at 11:50:41 - 02/07/2011
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I always felt Heavy Rain was overrated and I wonder if perhaps reviewers aren't being as forgiving to Beyond because of that.
#53 at 02:44:42 - 09/10/2013
peej
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I remember reviewing Heavy Rain for here and going on about how great it was - christ knows what I was smoking at the time. It hasn't aged at all well, and when you compare it with stuff like LA Noire it's not even in the same ball park.

I guess it did try something different, and at least tried to tackle some mature issues but again it just highlights the gulf between games and movies, even comics. We're a very long way off a game that's as gritty and mature as a decent 18 rated film.

Beyond demo was so annoying, everything about it annoyed me. I got to the bit where the girl is escaping by climbing up a cliff and rage quit. Don't think it even looked that great when you compare it to late gen stuff like TLOU
#54 at 12:58:02 - 09/10/2013
peej
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Oh and sex scenes. In games. Just don't do them. They look bizarre.
#55 at 12:59:51 - 09/10/2013
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peej said:I remember reviewing Heavy Rain for here and going on about how great it was - christ knows what I was smoking at the time.

I think that's true for a lot of people who reviewed it - maybe it did cast a spell over everyone.

I mean that was the game that was the focus of the BBC "I've seen something mindblowing behind closed doors but can't tell you what it is, yet" reports.

It probably was very different for its time, but yeah, hindsight does it no favours.
#56 at 13:07:19 - 09/10/2013
Flying_Pig
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See, I loved HR, but have no interest in replaying it whatsoever, and minimal interest in Beyond.

I think it's definitely a case of being amazing at that moment in time, but time and hindsight has probably dulled the impact of it.
#57 at 13:54:51 - 09/10/2013
peej
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The other thing that sticks in the mind is that it's one of those games where you absolutely HATE every single character in the game, good or bad, from the get go. They were all fucking annoying, all of them.

Doubt I'll even bother with Beyond, even if it fetches up as a freebie on PS +
#58 at 12:56:47 - 10/10/2013
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Yeah, was all a bit strange and disturbing for me. terrible characters
#59 at 16:38:49 - 18/10/2013

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